not branding functionality. Idle3 has a debugger, stack examination,editor all in one easy on the eye interface. I can’t answer the question about sublime as I know nothing of it.
I want the same experience with Julia that I had with Python. I buy a raspberry pi, update to idle3 and whoosh I am coding. No delays, no failures to integrate the development environment just pure fun. Right now that is NOT my experience with julia and I want it to be. So I am a tad concerned with anything microsoft, having worked closely with them several times, but nothing that would stop me using anything opensource they put out. I understand that julia wants to have people use an editor of choice BUT it would be nice to learn a lesson from the python community in this instance. Noobs like me need all the help we can get .
I’m not a fan of msft but I agree I don’t see how anything opensource can be bad. So yep I am onboard with looking int vscode 100%.
With privacy, e.g. You also normally don’t trust it if you are sitting at a table before a king, who has a great monopoly, a great harem, a large army, great power and wealth which he achieved by throat-cutting, theft, deception or whatever evil he did to get so rich?
But even if the software is good, the name Microsoft turns me off, and so VS Code too, though I admit I have used it with suspicion and almost paranoid care.
Microsoft? Really? Seems a bit out of date.
I’d be much more wary of the real giants, like Google.
At the moment, I imagine that Julia compile times on an RPi would be long, regardless of the IDE.
Pretty much all the options available at the moment were mentioned in this topic. You can either find one that works for you, and contribute to making it better, or develop your own IDE.
To the topic… as I said at present there is no any dedicated IDE for Julia that supports performing of typical initial tasks for beginners at comfortable level. It is matter of disputes, to talk whether it is worthy to make or how it should look or feel… but personally I would like to see in the Julia shipment something like Octavia GUI. It is not needed to be cool at look or very technological inside… but it should be simple, reliable, performant enough for usual tasks, and works out of box.
But you miss an important part of my point. Let me repeat:
Whether you like it or not, this is correct, applicable and perfectly reasonable.
The other part about privacy then falls in line nicely, especially if considering Windows 10.
That Google may be worse is not even relevant, and mentioning it causes no proper significant change here. It is more like averting attention from my point.
Please, if you make an argument, at least make it a formidable one or one without a fallacy so obvious.
Yes, @DIzer, please return to the topic, if we have strayed from it.
I tend to agree mostly. A simple, good IDE would serve both beginners and advanced users. I tend to think it would also more easily attract new (not so advanced) users, as they may get started more quickly, instead of having to deal with setups.
Then I’m afraid tool need to stick with python for the time being. For me personally, the benefits of using Julia, even with the occasional hiccup that you describe, are well worth the tradeoffs.
Julia is still a pretty young language, while python is installed by default on Mac and many Linux distros. That said, I’ve never run into the kind of environment hell I used to with python, never had to write ugly and unintuitive cludges to shoehorn a solution into a paradigm that didn’t make sense, and my code is much faster, without doing a ton of work.
Python certainly has advantages, not least in terms of it’s age and ubiquity, both of which mean that stuff like IDEs have lots of options and polish. I personally think Juno is amazing from a day-to-day perspective (I use it exclusively for all of my Julia coding, which is basically all of my coding), though it does occasionally have done rough edges. But the fact that one can hop on slack to complain or make a feature request and have Sebastian and hang fix it or implement it in less than a day is unbelievably cool.
And like @Tamas_Papp, I’m glad that there’s nothing “official,” since it means there are options for the emacs folks, the vim folks, and there’s no lock-in for anything. Plus, a vanilla editor + the plain Julia REPL is already a pretty great experience.
No, I did not miss that part. This is exactly what I was reacting to with incredulity.
Microsoft is now a mere shadow of its former self. And I kind of think that shadow isn’t so bad.
I’m not saying Google is worse. I’m saying they are so much more important and influential, that your description of Microsoft seems out of date. You might as well be railing against IBM or the West India Company.
Then you are still missing it. Put it like this then, if it’s clearer: even a small king is a king, and his OS (and some of his other software) is the most common in the whole world. And his evil practices were indeed there.
So why should you trust him, regardless of the irrelevant Google and regardless of his diminished position? Are you telling me to trust this small king, of whom I know that he did much evil?
If you know someone’s a criminal, maybe even a murderer, are you going to trust him and say, “Oh, well! There’s a much larger one out there!” ? I don’t think so
I’m just saying this is way over the top. Microsoft isn’t so bad, and vs code is a decent editor.
Just a quick comment.
I understand your point. I like that there are many options for different kinds of users.
But you err in one thing, if I read you correctly: the existence of a simple nice IDE shipped directly with Julia doesn’t mean lock-in. Why can you not have both options? Let those with their specific (advanced) needs/wishes have their specific environments, and let those who wish that simple included IDE have that IDE.
Then let us agree to disagree, and let us forget about it. I don’t have much time to argue anyway!
I am certainly aware of the wonders of julia and certainly will be moving to it. I wasn’t asking for anything official, just an easier route for noobs like myself to ease ourselves into the julia world. I actually had julia, atom running and had tested it out after pointing it as the ./julia executable. It was only when I installed juno that things went south on me. I think @Tamas_Papp is an excellent ambassador for julia as he wrote some code which I am going to use to learn about julia. I’m NOT comparing python to julia, that would be strange, but I was using the IDLE3 approach to point out that it was a interesting technique to bring on new coders. Glad you like juno I am probably going down either the emacs route OR the vs code route.
I also hate Microsoft, but VSCode is a great IDE for Julia. If you are concerned about the license, you could try VSCodium.
@Tamas_Papp wasn’t suggesting julia on a pi just the onboarding process of IDLE3 and python for new coders was interesting. Upton and his team did an excellent job. I am looking at emacs and vs studio. I want to thank you again for taking the time to put together a wonderful foundation on which I can start. Have an excellent weekend.
To be pedantic, VS Code is open source like Google Chrome. That is, it is, it isn’t.
But it is built on top of open source software, so like Chromium, you can install open source builds if you search for them, or if your (Linux) package manager provides.
(EDIT: @Yifan_Liu beat me on the license comment.)
Microsoft is a “real giant”. As recently as august, they were the biggest of the tech companies, and currently are second only to Apple. They are NOT a shadow of their former selves. Their embrace of open source just means they’re less evil than they were in the past.
That said, I’m less concerned about the size of a company than I am on how they make their money. Microsoft may be bigger than Google and Facebook, but I’m more likely to trust a company that sells products to make money (like Microsoft or Apple) than I am companies where you are the product (Facebook, Google).
As for editor, I use emacs.
I have to run Windows at work (and we aren’t allowed to use Windows Subsystem for Linux), and the Julia emacs plugin is unusable on my computer under those conditions. It may also be a product of the mountain of corporate surveillance and logging software interacting they put on their, rather than Windows itself. That means I remote into their Linux cluster and run emacs in a terminal (on a login node, because emacs doesn’t work correctly on their compute nodes…shhh).
They also have a firewall that blocks melpa, but there’s a github repository that lets you clone all of it and then you can point emacs to your local melpa rather than the remote. Alternatively, my boss just downloads and installs his emacs packages manually.
Unfortunately, getting set up isn’t always easy.
But at home on Linux, emacs is much easier to setup.
The dominance of Microsoft is a pale shadow of their position a decade or two ago. You cannot seriously claim that they are as dominant as before. Far from it.