julia> a=1;
julia> while true; print(a); break; end
1
julia> while true; a=2; break; end
julia> while true; a=2; print(a); break; end
2
julia> while true; print(a); a=2; break; end
ERROR: UndefVarError: a not defined
Stacktrace:
[1] top-level scope at .\REPL[4]:1 [inlined]
[2] top-level scope at .\none:0
So the rule is that you need to specify global a to assign values to globals inside loops
The first while simply reads the global, the second and third use a local with a defined value, and the last wants to use variable a as a local, but there was no value assigned to it yet
That shines light, thanks.
I had thought Julia, as a dynamic language, would do everything at run time, in a top-down fashion. But it turns out it determines locality of variables kind of at compile time, but the actual evaluation at run time. (Of course it’s more complicated , as it’s JIT compiled…)
Which makes it seem partially blind in this case, where it can tell that a is made local by a=... but not the actual value of a so that to tell print to print 2.
Overall, I think this makes the behavior complicated, for most of users, compared to other languages.
julia> a=1;
julia> while true; print(a); break; end
1
julia> while true; q=2; break; end
julia> while true; q=2; print(q); break; end
2
julia> while true; print(q); q=2; break; end
a=1 present before the while loop. while loop body introducing by default a local scope is a strange (to say the least) idea to me
once Julia can tell a is made local, even though a=2 occurs after print(a), somehow I expected it to also “see” the value on the other side of = in a=2.
I no longer hold the 2nd opinion (after your clarification of just syntactic determination of local scope.)
I still hold 1st opinion though, quite strongly. I will probably elaborate in another post, in “Development” section.
Not at all; my version illustrates the conflict between a local and global variable with same name, and user confusion it creates. Your version is not surprising at all, IMO.
The two versions are semantically equivalent. Your thread title was “Understanding while loop UndedVarError and scope”, my example was there to help you do that.
Thank you. Now I see what you mean: they are semantically equivalent for the computer. With my reply above to you “Not quite…” I meant they are not equivalent from the user perspective/expectation.
I don’t understand how your explanation is relevant to what I was saying (I don’t blame you).
I knew that in Julia assignment can bind several names to the same object, and mutating the object via one name results in all names pointing now to the new object
But in the context I talked about, I used only 1 name, v, and was stating that allowing v[1]=1 inside while to mutate global v would be the same as if Julia allowing direct v = [1 0] inside that loop to modify that same global v.
Scoping is about what value (or object) a particular symbol is bound to. Assignment changes that. Mutation does not.
With s =[0 0] , then does not s[1]=1 result in now symbol s being bound to a new object, [1 0], as compared to [0 0]?
(I don’t mean the internal implementation details, but the end result)
No, it means that the object s has been modified but it is the same object.
julia> s = [0 1];
julia> pointer_from_objref(s)
Ptr{Nothing} @0x000000010e6324d0
julia> s[1] = 1;
julia> pointer_from_objref(s) # the same as before
Ptr{Nothing} @0x000000010e6324d0
julia> s = [1 1];
julia> pointer_from_objref(s) # different, new object
Ptr{Nothing} @0x000000010ecf55d0
That’s sounds like a logical self-contradiction to me
You are showing that with mutation, the address of the object remains the same: but then you interpret this to mean that the object stays the same as well.
I “prove” the “same-ness” of the 2 objects like this
s=[0 0]; s[1] = 1;
s == [1 0]
true
s = [1 0];
s == [1 0]
true
It isn’t though. There is a difference between repainting a house and building a new identical house with a new color. As a case where this would matter, burning down the new identical house is likely ok while burning down the repainted house would likely get you in trouble with the people who own it.
Scope has to do with the bindings of symbols to objects, not the content of the objects.
Having different definitions than everyone else means that there will be trouble when you communicate with other people. I’ve already shown you where your definition of “same-ness” and two objects being identical matters.