Indeed, the TIOBE results fail the eyeball test so badly and in so many different ways that it serves better as a tool for optometrists.
It seems to be based on such (“Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu”) queries:
“<language> programming”, also other queries such as “programming with <language>”, “<language> development” and “<language> coding” should be tried out.
So it’s some measure of mindshare (not actual use, nor “about the best programming language”), likely explaining assembly so high (lots of stuff mentions “assembly programming”, even though most people don’t do any).
Job listings are of course not the only metrics we look at in Spectrum. A complete list of our sources is here, but in a nutshell we look at nine metrics that we think are good proxies for measuring what languages people are programming in. Sources include GitHub, Google, Stack Overflow, Twitter, and IEEE Xplore.
Julia there listed 28th, just after D (which we also use at work, mostly).
It just occurred to me, TIOBE seems to search for e.g. “Julia programming”, and it doesn’t find Julia discourse posts.
I tried to Google for a random post I found (and found it):
How to Plot Step Functions Correctly in Julia?
but not with:
“Julia programming” How to Plot Step Functions Correctly in Julia?
@logankilpatrick or whoever is responsible for Discourse (and Forem etc.), so can anyone add an invisible meta-tag (or needs it be visible, e.g. in a footer?) to all of Discourse? It seems appropriate.
Can people or need ask google (and bing etc.) to reindex your/this site?
I believe @viralbshah and others have looked at this before to make sure we are good but I’ll take a look again in a few hours.
I double checked this and it looks like all the Meta tags already say “Julia Programming” so we should be good.
There’s also “Julia programming language” in the page footer.
But it is strange that a google search for
While I share the exact same thought, the TIOBE Index is still very popular – at least the people I know of tend to use it as a measure for the success of a language. That being said, I still hope that we reach Top 20 soon since I am pretty sure that it will have a booster effect. No matter how bad the algorithm is and how often we point out its flaws.
Googling this doesn’t work:
“Julia language” “How to Plot Step Functions”
nor with “Julia tutorial” (while it’s a solved question so it kind of is) but "Julia programming” and "Julia programming language” works. I suppose that’s enough for TIOBE, but not sure for others, and I think at least “Julia language” additionally should be in meta tags, now that a new index is coming from them and others, in October, maybe not too late to ass meta tags?
I’m not sure it’s justified to add “tutorial” too as a meta tag (here, in general, possibly it can be done for solved questions conditionally?). If you do write one, or a blog, and it’s a tutorial please be specific about it.
The following principles were used:
- just the language name, e.g. Python, would lead to inconsistent results, because Python has many other meanings;
- the same phrase should be used for all languages, for consistency.
- programming would not do : C programming is used much more than PHP programming, because PHP does not need the qualifier
- tutorial is a word used frequently by developers learning any new language : it makes a good leading indicator. What is a python tutorial, if not a tutorial on the programming language ?
- ios tutorial is used instead of the (less popular) objective-c tutorial to better reflect what iPhone developers search. This is confirmed by an analysis of language tag followers on StackOverflow, or of the visits of the Wikipedia language pages [s] : they give a 4-5% popularity to Objective-C, which is highly consistent with our estimate. It may flatter objective-c’s market share because it includes queries of iOS end users.
It does now, some someone changed something (post though from July 12th, and solved by an answer from same day), or just passing of time helped.
Right now Julia is 25th (0.28 %) at PyPL Oct index, but 12th in the UK (2.44 %, up 4 places, trend “+2.2 %”) vs. Matlab there 25th (0.24 %, trend: “-1.7 %”) so IF the index (and share) is meaningful as a “leading indicator”, then Julia 10x more popular there than Matlab (which dropped 15 places, since when?, and Lua up 9 places to 9th). And R is 5th just above “C/C++”… And Python has “-15.4 %” trend, though still on top.
To be fair, PyPL doesn’t have consistent ranking over time either, but (for Julia) it may actually be very understandable, (exponential?) smoothing would ideally be used for the seasonal fluctuation. And the rank is always going to be more unpredictable than plotting the “share” itself (or “ratings” at TIOBE).
It’s most obvious if you choose UK, and “show your favorite languages” by choosing Julia from the drop-down menu. It might indicate student use (or workplace), less in the summer. Note the graph is logarithmic, and the bottom cut off.
At least, on this leading indicator, we’re past PHP (and Swift, Haskell and Rust) which was, still is I think, the most common web programming language used (e.g. because of WordPress), though maybe not for new projects. I believe even on this index PHP was highest rated of all languages, and we’re also past where R was in 2010 (in the UK, and similar timelag for the US).
It’s unexplained why Matlab is falling off a cliff, in the UK, not elsewhere.
Hopefully Julia makes top 20 of TIOBE index, then we can get such a graph there.
The most fishy thing about that PyPL chart is not Matlab falling off a cliff, but Python falling off a cliff. In just one year (autumn 2021 - autumn 2022) Python fell from 40% to about 25% (note the Y axis is logarithmic). UK only, but that still seems completely unreasonable to me. Unless there’s a simple explanation like a plotting bug or major change in methodology, I think the conclusion must be that PyPL is best ignored for individual countries.