# Time limits for unfocused discourse threads?

**URL:** <https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739>\
**Category:** Meta Discussion\
**Created:** [November 26, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739 "2023-11-26T12:40:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![mbauman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mbauman/32/31082_2.png) [@mbauman](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mbauman)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/21 "2023-11-29T16:46:00Z")

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> [@StefanKarpinski](#):
>
> I would also add that we already tried to implement a “no overly broad” discussion topics policy, which this is just an iteration of really. This is allowing them for a while instead of closing them immediately which we haven’t been doing, I suspect because it feels a little too strict and may seem defensive.

In my head that was a slightly different thing: I think of [POLICY: feedback discussion splitting](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/policy-feedback-discussion-splitting/57362) as being pretty focused on litany of gripes/complaints/feedback than general unfocused questions.

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**Author:** ![Barget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/94ad74/32.png) [@Barget](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/Barget)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/22 "2023-11-29T18:51:46Z")

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> [@StefanKarpinski](#):
>
> we could do 48 instead. If there’s anything interesting in the thread, people are free to spin off more specific threads.

I like this way of putting it! To allow for “bootstrapping” topics: the burden of topic-splitting is thus transferred from moderators to contributors (if ever some interesting enough ideas pop up).

Also, this provides those with divergent minds (mostly newcomers, but not only) with some times to try to focus, by getting some feedback.

(And as @mbauman mentioned, that’s a great way to not take it personally when a topic is closed, and not accuse moderators.)

These were my two cents

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**Author:** ![dlakelan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/dlakelan/32/8491_2.png) [@dlakelan](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/dlakelan)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/23 "2023-11-29T21:28:48Z")

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Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, but I came here after reading the title for the interesting idea of `@spawn` with a timer that auto kills a Julia thread if it hasn’t completed by a certain amount of wall time… 😂

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**Author:** ![Tamas\_Papp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/tamas_papp/32/25949_2.png) [@Tamas\_Papp](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/Tamas_Papp)\
**Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:14am UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/24 "2023-11-30T09:14:49Z")

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Is an “unfocused topic” flag something that we could do now, or does that require a feature request from the Discourse maintainers too?

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**Author:** ![devel-chm](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/devel-chm/32/3572_2.png) [@devel-chm](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/devel-chm)\
**Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/25 "2023-11-30T13:04:44Z")

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Is there a way to allow readers to flag a thread as possibly unfocused?  
If N \> Nthresh users so flag it, an automatic X hour close timer could start.

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**Author:** ![stevengj](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/stevengj/32/71_2.png) [@stevengj](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/stevengj)\
**Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/26 "2023-11-30T14:13:28Z")

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> [@devel-chm](#):
>
> Is there a way to allow readers to flag a thread as possibly unfocused?  
> If N \> Nthresh users so flag it, an automatic X hour close timer could start.

I don’t think we would ever want this to be automatic — like any other flag, it should have to be approved by moderators.

> [@Tamas\_Papp](#):
>
> Is an “unfocused topic” flag something that we could do now, or does that require a feature request from the Discourse maintainers too?

I think you can do this right now, without any software changes, by clicking the “flag” button on a post, choosing the “Something else” reason, and writing “unfocused thread” in the comment box.

However, it would be more discoverable if we could add an explicit option for “unfocused topic — should be time limited” in the future.

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**Author:** ![mbauman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mbauman/32/31082_2.png) [@mbauman](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mbauman)\
**Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/27 "2023-11-30T14:18:54Z")

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We can change any of the text in the radio buttons in the flag dialog, but we only get four options:

![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/original/3X/5/4/549452ff61358ede85b52ad1b8d1e6da66dc26ec.png)

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**Author:** ![stevengj](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/stevengj/32/71_2.png) [@stevengj](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/stevengj)\
**Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/28 "2023-11-30T15:53:44Z")

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> [@mbauman](#):
>
> We can change any of the text in the radio buttons in the flag dialog, but we only get four options:

Maybe change the “It’s off-topic” to “It’s off-topic or unfocused”, with a corresponding description?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![StefanKarpinski](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/stefankarpinski/32/24_2.png) [@StefanKarpinski](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/StefanKarpinski)\
**Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/29 "2023-11-30T16:54:39Z")

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Handling off-topic and unfocused the same way with a time limit seems pretty reasonable, imo. Moderators can always choose to take a different action as needed.

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**Author:** ![mbauman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mbauman/32/31082_2.png) [@mbauman](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mbauman)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 1:49pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/30 "2023-12-07T13:49:15Z")

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Here’s a thought: what if the #Offtopic category itself had a default close timer of 7 days?

Why that one category? It’s often where the non-technical, more opinionated discussions happen. I like leaving technical threads open because they gather Google search rank and can often be found long after they were written — so updates can often be valuable.

I think this would also mean that moving topics into #Offtopic would also start the timer.

We could always choose to extend or disable the timer on a case-by-case basis, but then it’s a _positive_ intervention instead of a negative one.

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**Author:** ![stevengj](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/stevengj/32/71_2.png) [@stevengj](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/stevengj)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/31 "2023-12-07T14:08:16Z")

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> [@mbauman](#):
>
> what if the #Offtopic category itself had a default close timer of 7 days? […] I think this would also mean that moving topics into #Offtopic would also start the timer.

I think think that’s a good default for the _Offtopic_ category, but we would still want an “offtopic or unfocused” flag (replacing the current “offtopic” flag) that would start a timer (possibly a shorter default timer for posts that were specifically flagged, e.g. 48 hours) and can be applied to posts in any category without moving them.

Otherwise, I’m worried that _Offtopic_ will just become a dumping ground for annoying threads. e.g. “How can machine learning be better in Julia?” clearly belongs in _Specific Domains / Machine Learning_ if anywhere, but is also such an unfocused topic that it will never end without a time limit.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![mbauman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mbauman/32/31082_2.png) [@mbauman](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mbauman)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/32 "2023-12-07T14:59:42Z")

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> [@stevengj](#):
>
> we would still want an “offtopic or unfocused” flag (replacing the current “offtopic” flag)

I’m on board with that. It’s very easy to change this text; let’s try it. Here’s what I’ve changed (unfortunately the site doesn’t show a diff nicely, but I think you can guess what these used to say):

 ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/original/3X/1/f/1ffa838bd66c7fd16e7801a5d84b337345596c73.png)

(As I understand it, our site is not localized, so the English text is what shows up regardless of your locale settings)

It’s easy to revert if we don’t like this; and suggestions are welcome!

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**Author:** ![mihalybaci](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mihalybaci/32/13528_2.png) [@mihalybaci](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mihalybaci)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/33 "2023-12-27T19:14:01Z")

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When I first looked at this thread on [AI and CO2](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/ai-models-are-too-costly/107983/), I happened to notice the two day time limit and was intrigued. I ended up engaging more than I originally anticipated, and I think in this case the time limit worked like a charm. People got some interesting points in, some interesting Julia-related ideas came out of it, and it seems to have closed gracefully. Well done, I’d say!

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**Author:** ![ufechner7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/ufechner7/32/51363_2.png) [@ufechner7](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/ufechner7)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/34 "2023-12-27T20:19:54Z")

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You linked the wrong thread, though…

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**Author:** ![mihalybaci](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mihalybaci/32/13528_2.png) [@mihalybaci](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mihalybaci)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/35 "2023-12-27T20:21:33Z")

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Fixed! Thanks for pointing that out!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![mbauman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mbauman/32/31082_2.png) [@mbauman](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mbauman)\
**Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/37 "2024-01-25T14:41:24Z")

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@benslinux I’ve moved your comment here — the challenge isn’t so much in the “endless” part; we do have many endless discussions here! It’s the unfocused-and-prone-to-hot-takes part that ends up consuming lots of people’s time needlessly.

And yes, there are wide-ranging and unfocused threads that can and do make for interesting discussions! That’s why we just limit them to a short period of time instead of closing outright.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![benslinux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@benslinux](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/benslinux)\
**Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/38 "2024-01-25T17:55:13Z")

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Understood - but it doesn’t make much sense. I wrote it as part of an ongoing thread - it’s completely out of context posted here. I just deleted it.

Good luck to all of you at Julia Discourse.

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**Author:** ![nsajko](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/nsajko/32/221187_2.png) [@nsajko](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/nsajko)\
**Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:26am UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/39 "2024-01-26T08:26:50Z")

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The opposition to the time limits seems significant. Perhaps an additional category for unfocused threads/chat should be introduced to the forum?

> [@A most harrowing collection of Julia WATs](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/a-most-harrowing-collection-of-julia-wats/77323/105):
>
> > [@A most harrowing collection of Julia WATs](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/a-most-harrowing-collection-of-julia-wats/77323/104):
> >
> > The problem is, I think, that such threads siphon off the usefulness from the rest of the forum. The fact that someone might say something useful or significant in such a difficult-to-navigate thread is a problem because the information is then made relatively inaccessible.
> 
> I think that’s making the assumption that these conversations are inevitable and what doesn’t get brought up here will necessarily have been brought up as a new topic. Often these useful conversations only happen because there is less social friction to responding with an example in a thread like this than creating a new topic. The fact that we have so many instances of important discussions happening in unrelated threads can just as easily be interpreted as those threads being necessary to spark discussions that we wouldn’t otherwise be having.

> [@A most harrowing collection of Julia WATs](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/a-most-harrowing-collection-of-julia-wats/77323/106):
>
> I agree - archiving stuff, by making updates impossible via locking, can really change an evergreen thread like this, or an a focused discussion on a fast changing subject, into a stale conversation that fades away collecting dust. This is a good example of a thread that I feel adds value from being open, with minimal harm.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![stevengj](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/stevengj/32/71_2.png) [@stevengj](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/stevengj)\
**Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:56pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/40 "2024-01-26T12:56:06Z")

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> [@nsajko](#):
>
> The opposition to the time limits seems significant.

You’re clearly going to find a number of people who like open-ended threads — after all, many people _create_ such threads. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be discussing this policy.

But this is a moderated forum, not a free-for-all, and the maintainers of the forum get to decide what kind of forum it will be. (The extreme alternative of “anything anyone wants to say, as long as it’s not illegal” quickly [results in 8chan](https://www.techdirt.com/2022/11/02/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-speed-run-the-content-moderation-learning-curve/).)

Personally, I think that we’ve tried allowing unending open-ended threads already, and time limits have created a vastly more pleasant experience. Long open-ended threads, while occasionally entertaining, tend to be an overall negative for the forum for the reasons discussed above, and any positive contributions are buried because it’s too hard for later readers to go back and sift through the discussion. A few days seems to have been plenty for people to get some interesting thoughts in before wrapping up, and someone can always start a new thread on a narrower/spin-off sub-topic.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![mihalybaci](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/julialang/user_avatar/discourse.julialang.org/mihalybaci/32/13528_2.png) [@mihalybaci](https://discourse.julialang.org/u/mihalybaci)\
**Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/time-limits-for-unfocused-discourse-threads/106739/41 "2024-01-26T13:29:25Z")

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One more thing to consider. I would argue that threads have a peak number of posts where after that point it discussion becomes less useful, and this number varies depending on the post. I tried following [the rand(Float32) thread](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/output-distribution-of-rand-float32-and-rand-float64-thread-2/105184/1), but that is now 438 posts. So despite the singular focus and necessity of the topics, what person is going to read through it all? Most likely someone will just jump in at the bottom with an idea that was already said 200 posts higher. I don’t think it should be closed for that reason, but I hope it illustrates my point.

Part of the reason Discourse exists is to create of a body of knowledge that is **easily** searchable and helpful. Being led to a mega-thread to find the answer to a problem is less than ideal. [Julia WATs](https://discourse.julialang.org/t/a-most-harrowing-collection-of-julia-wats/77323/108) has some interesting stuff, but is there much more to say? How much of it is now outdated? If someone has a new WAT they can just start a new topic.

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