RFC: 2020 Julia User and Developer Survey

This is my revision in Spanish of your draft.

Done.

Thanks you, I have already applied my changes in your draft.

The survey will be coded up into a form, and then widely announced for taking. We are still in the preparation phase.

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@Nosferican @dmolina Thank you both! Just verifying that this is the right version for us to use:

Should be this one

Thanks everyone for all the help and discussion. We incorporated many suggestions, but also wanted to not change it too much in order to keep it comparable to last year.

English, Spanish, Japanese:
https://juliacomputing.com/survey

Chinese (turns out jotform doesn’t work in China and hence we have a separate URL):

-viral

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I’m not too concerned with how many take the survey, but I wouldn’t want to alienate anyone from using Julia. I’m not going to ask you, if you identify as a member of any underrepresented group (LGBTQ or black etc.), but either way, especially if not, for people might be a concern. I can’t speak for underrepresented groups, but do they feel more included with such questions, or could care less? Do they feel offended somehow, if not asked (or even for gender)?

I know there’s are community websites for e.g. black programmers (if I recall they use the word black, and not all are from Africa, except in the sense we all are…): African-American women in computer science - Wikipedia

We could ask the minority (and majority) communities, what they think of the questions. We do have many combinations, can we just have “underrepresened” or not (even excluding gender, I believe asking for that, started LGBTQ issue)?

Again, in this particular instance I don’t think these questions are about offending (or appeasing) people — the information collected from them is genuinely useful if one is interested in measuring how inclusive the community is towards various groups.

Computer science, like many other technical/professional fields, has a huge historical debt from excluding certain groups of people. A few extra questions that allow to quantifying progress on this front are well worth it IMO.

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I know of the case of Alan Turing, which is way long ago, and also that in the USSR there was discrimination towards Jews (by ethnicity, not only by religion), Germans and some other ethnic groups, other among other things on admittance to the universities. However that is rather long ago, too.

But what else?

Half the population, for instance.

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Half the world population, half the USA population?

I’m not aware of excluding women from studying sciences in the USA and Europe in the last, say 30 years.

I am. My own daughter was advised (15 ya) to leave “up to the boys” when she expressed interest in working with computers.

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Eh… Kinda disgusting. I would tell my daughter that’s nonsense

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Certainly not good. Still, I don’t think that amounts to “exclusion”.

Sorry, it happened to be difficult for me to keep my word - but I’ll again try my best.

Actually, to cite fully: “Honey, better leave it up to the boys, they tend to be better at it.” That was the elementary school teacher. A woman. :frowning:

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Spreading a self-discrimination culture in the form of advice, that’s pretty toxic. Not to mention the advice itself is a classic example of the “correlation implies causation” logical fallacy.

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It is not inclusive, and that is the point. The extent to which you believe it amounts to exclusion is irrelevant.

Again, the survey simply asks basic demographic questions. It isn’t asking opinionated questions, nothing about policy proposals, etc. If you don’t want to provide the information, that’s always your choice. But to argue that it is wrong to include those questions is silly, particularly if your supporting argument is that “you aren’t aware of active discrimination”.

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A lot of things don’t formally amount to exclusion, just make it more difficult for certain groups in society to participate. A lot of people in these groups then realize that the playing field is not level, so they don’t even try.

It is very difficult to quantify these things causally. One may just err on the side of asking a few extra questions in a survey.

Frankly, I am puzzled why people have such a beef about these questions. As @tbeason said, no one is obligated to answer, people can just skip them all. Simply asking these questions does not amount to taking a stance about discrimination; it’s just collecting information.

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Well, to my knowledge in France it’s even forbidden by law to ask these questions about ethnicity.

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